Legislature(2015 - 2016)SENATE FINANCE 532

02/19/2015 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE

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09:03:40 AM Start
09:04:43 AM Presentation: Susitna-watana Dam - Administrative Order 271
10:25:41 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Presentation: Overview FY17 Operating Budget TELECONFERENCED
Departments: Environmental Conservation and
Sara Fisher-Goad, Executive Director, Alaska
Energy Authority
Wayne Dyok, Project Manager
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
                 SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                     February 19, 2015                                                                                          
                         9:03 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:03:40 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  called  the  Senate  Finance  Committee                                                                    
meeting to order at 9:03 a.m.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Anna MacKinnon, Co-Chair                                                                                                
Senator Pete Kelly, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Peter Micciche, Vice-Chair                                                                                              
Senator Click Bishop                                                                                                            
Senator Mike Dunleavy                                                                                                           
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Sara  Sarah Fisher-Goad,  Executive Director,  Alaska Energy                                                                    
Authority,  Department of  Commerce, Community  and Economic                                                                    
Development;  Wayne  Dyok,  Project Manager,  Alaska  Energy                                                                    
Authority,  Department of  Commerce, Community  and Economic                                                                    
Development.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
^PRESENTATION:  SUSITNA-WATANA  DAM -  ADMINISTRATIVE  ORDER                                                                  
271                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:04:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SARA  SARAH FISHER-GOAD,  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR,  ALASKA ENERGY                                                                    
AUTHORITY,  DEPARTMENT OF  COMMERCE, COMMUNITY  AND ECONOMIC                                                                    
DEVELOPMENT,  introduced  the presentation,  "Susitna-Watana                                                                    
Hydro."  She recapped  that the  project  had received  $192                                                                    
million in  capital fund appropriations  starting in  FY 06,                                                                    
and  had,   based  on  legislative  direction,   sought  the                                                                    
appropriate large hydro project in the Railbelt region. She                                                                     
turned to Slide 2, "Project Status":                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     • Federal Energy Regulatory Commission                                                                                     
     Integrated Licensing Process                                                                                               
     • Three Environmental Field Seasons Supporting                                                                             
     58 FERC-Approved Studies                                                                                                   
     • Filed Initial Study Report June, 2014                                                                                    
     • 50 Tech Memos filed with FERC 2013-2014                                                                                  
     • Engineering Feasibility Report Released                                                                                  
     January 2015                                                                                                               
     • 60-Day Licensing Abeyance                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:08:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad moved to Slide 3, "Project Funding":                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     • Funded total of $192 million through                                                                                     
          Capital Fund appropriations                                                                                           
         - FY09-11: $11.17 million (combination of                                                                              
          Railbelt Energy Fund and General Fund)                                                                                
          - FY12: $65.7 million (Railbelt Energy Fund)                                                                          
          - FY13: $0                                                                                                            
          - FY14: $95.2 million (General Fund)                                                                                  
          - FY15: $20 million (General Fund)                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:08:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad presented Slide 4, "Administrative Order                                                                        
271":                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     • Dec. 26,  2014- AO 271 directs all  State agencies to                                                                  
     halt  to  the  maximum  extent  possible  discretionary                                                                    
     expenditures  for  six   projects,  including  Susitna-                                                                    
     Watana Hydro                                                                                                               
     • Summary of Project Funding ($thousands)                                                                                  
          - State of Alaska appropriations $192,072.8                                                                           
          - Expenditures (as of 12.31.14) ($158,476)                                                                            
          -   Total   Non-Discretionary   Encumbered   Funds                                                                    
          ($26,915.10)                                                                                                          
          - Balance of Authorized Funds $6,681.70                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:09:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad continued  to Slide  5, "Potential  Paths".                                                                    
The slide  detailed what  would be  done with  the remaining                                                                    
unencumbered funds with  the addition of work  that could be                                                                    
done with potential future funding as the project advanced                                                                      
toward licensing:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
   Current Status                                                                                                             
     · Expenditures: (12.31.14) $158.5 million                                                                                  
     · Encumbered Funds - $26.9 million                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
   $6.6 million in Remaining Unencumbered Funds                                                                               
     · 28 Studies Completed                                                                                                     
     · Modeling                                                                                                                 
     · Vegetation and Wildlife                                                                                                  
     · T-line Corridor Baseline                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
   $10 million Additional Funds                                                                                               
     · 36 Studies Complete                                                                                                      
     · Extensive Modeling                                                                                                       
     · Fisheries                                                                                                                
     · Botanical                                                                                                                
     · Limited Cultural Resources                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
   $20 million Additional Funds                                                                                               
     · 43 Studies Completed                                                                                                     
     · Instream Flow                                                                                                            
     · Water Quality and Geomorphic Modeling                                                                                    
     · Additional Fisheries                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
   License Application                                                                                                        
     · $100 million                                                                                                             
     · Complete All Studies                                                                                                     
     · License Application                                                                                                      
     · 404 Permit                                                                                                               
     · Water Quality Certification                                                                                              
     · Biological Assessment                                                                                                    
     · Eagle Permitting                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:11:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop asked how long the FERC license would be                                                                         
valid.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE  DYOK,  PROJECT   MANAGER,  ALASKA  ENERGY  AUTHORITY,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE,  COMMUNITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,                                                                    
replied  that construction  had to  begin within  four years                                                                    
after  procurement of  a  FERC license.  He  added that  the                                                                    
timeline  could  be  extended  permanently  through  federal                                                                    
legislation.  He furthered  that  the  original license  was                                                                    
good for 50  years, but reiterated that  construction had to                                                                    
begin within the first four years.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:12:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy asked  whether building  100 feet  of road                                                                    
could be considered construction.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  responded that  people have tried  in the  past to                                                                    
get by with as little  construction as possible, he believed                                                                    
that FERC would require an effort that was not diminimus.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy asked how the  state taking a year off from                                                                    
spending would affect the project.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad  replied that  currently  the  AEA was  not                                                                    
requesting for any additional funds to be appropriated.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  asked  whether  the  project  could  move                                                                    
forward as  planned if the  state were to clawback  the $6.6                                                                    
million and offer no additional expenditures for FY 16.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad replied  that she  did not  think that  the                                                                    
project   could  move   forward  as   planned  under   those                                                                    
circumstances.  She said  the clawback  of the  $6.6 million                                                                    
would cause a  "hard stop" of the project and  would make it                                                                    
difficult to move forward at a later date.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy wondered what would  happen to the $26.9 in                                                                    
encumbered funds.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad replied  that it  was difficult  to address                                                                    
the question in light of  the unknowns in the process toward                                                                    
the  license  application.  She   said  that  the  remaining                                                                    
unencumbered funds  would allow the state  to keep equipment                                                                    
in the field and maintain the momentum of the project.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy relayed  that  he was  trying  to fix  the                                                                    
state's  revenue shortfall.  He  thought  that all  projects                                                                    
should  be  scrutinized as  to  whether  they really  needed                                                                    
funding in FY 16.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad  explained that without the  $6.6 million in                                                                    
unencumbered funds the  project could not move  forward in a                                                                    
manner  that  would  preserve  the  option  to  license  the                                                                    
project  in  the future.  She  reiterated  that AEA  was  no                                                                    
requesting additional  funds in  FY 16,  but was  asking for                                                                    
funds that  had already  been appropriated for  the project,                                                                    
in order to maintain the momentum of the project.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  requested  a   definitive  answer  as  to                                                                    
whether the project  would be dead without  the $6.6 million                                                                    
in unencumbered funds.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:17:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  asked  for  a  timeframe  of  the  funding                                                                    
pathways represented on Slide 5.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad answered  that  the  anticipation was  that                                                                    
there would not  be a request for additional  funds until FY                                                                    
18. She stated  that AEA had met with FERC  staff to discuss                                                                    
the process  forward given the state's  fiscal climate; FERC                                                                    
understood the investment and commitment  that the state had                                                                    
made in respect  to the project and  would exercise patience                                                                    
as the  state worked  through its  fiscal issues.  She added                                                                    
that in  respect to the  administrative order,  AEA believed                                                                    
that it could continue to  work forward incrementally on the                                                                    
project,  without additional  funding,  while continuing  to                                                                    
preserve the option to license.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:19:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  asked when the  cash calls would  occur for                                                                    
the additional  funding listed  on Slide  5 for  the license                                                                    
application.  He  wondered  whether the  requests  would  be                                                                    
general  funds,   or  were  there  other   expected  revenue                                                                    
sources.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad  reiterated that additional funds  would not                                                                    
be sought until FY 18.   She elaborated that railroad energy                                                                    
and  general  funds  had  already   been  received  for  the                                                                    
project. She  thought that  the current  financial situation                                                                    
was  an  opportunity  to  explore  other  potential  funding                                                                    
options for licensing.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:21:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bishop  asked how much  money had been spent  in the                                                                    
1980's on the project.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad replied $140 million.                                                                                           
Senator Bishop  asked whether the  FERC license has  a value                                                                    
that could  be assigned to  it, and whether the  license was                                                                    
transferrable with the value assigned to it.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  responded that it  was hard to quantify  the value                                                                    
of the  license, but that  the state could  consider selling                                                                    
sometime in  the future. He  did not believe that  there was                                                                    
any  value until  the license  was  officially procured.  He                                                                    
thought that  once the  state got the  license, it  would be                                                                    
easier to bring in partners to help develop the project.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:22:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon asked  whether the  $10 million  and $20                                                                    
million  listed  on slide  5  were  cumulative, and  whether                                                                    
there  would   be  36  independent   studies  and   then  43                                                                    
additional studies.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad replied  that the $20 million  would pay for                                                                    
the 43 studies.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  clarified  that   the  steps  were  not                                                                    
incremental,  but were  options that  the legislature  could                                                                    
choose from.  She surmised that  AEA was advising  that $100                                                                    
million was needed in order  to reach the licensing, the $10                                                                    
million and $20  million were interim steps  that could move                                                                    
the project forward.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad stated  that projections  of what  could be                                                                    
done with half of the requested funding could be provided.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:23:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  asked  how many  people  were  employed                                                                    
working on the projects, including contractors.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad  said  that  she  could  get  back  to  the                                                                    
committee on  the specific number  of employees.  She stated                                                                    
that in  the 2013  and 2014 field  seasons, there  were over                                                                    
200 people employed in the field alone.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok  added  there   were  approximately  70  different                                                                    
contractors  currently working  on the  project. He  offered                                                                    
that there  had been approximately 700  employees working in                                                                    
the field over the past three years.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:25:45 AM                                                                                                                    
Ms.  Fisher-Goad presented  Slide 6,  "Project Cost  Range,"                                                                    
and  noted that  over  $150 million  that  had already  been                                                                    
expended  on   the  project  for  field   seasons  and  data                                                                    
collection.  She made  note of  the unprecedented  effort in                                                                    
the  licensing  effort.  She  spoke   to  the  slide,  which                                                                    
illustrated  that the  base estimate  for  the project  cost                                                                    
range was $5.6 billion.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:27:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad  moved to  slide  7,  "Comparing 3  Finance                                                                    
Options,"  and  shared that  AEA  had  been working  with  a                                                                    
financial  advising  form  that specialized  in  very  large                                                                    
projects:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     • Bond & RUS Financing                                                                                                     
          - $0.064/kWh 50 year average real price                                                                               
     • All Bond Financing                                                                                                       
          - $0.073/kWh 50 year average real price                                                                               
     • State Loan & RUS                                                                                                         
          - Similar to Bradley Lake model                                                                                       
          - $0.037/kWh 50 year average real price                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad emphasized that  AEA was examining financing                                                                    
options that  would provide a  reasonable cost of  power and                                                                    
were not looking to the state to grant fund the project.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:28:39 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  asked  whether  there was  a  formula  or                                                                    
program   being   used   to  evaluate   different   economic                                                                    
strategies using different variables.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad  replied  that   there  was  not  a  simple                                                                    
spreadsheet that  could provide  that information,  and that                                                                    
there was  a connection  between the  way the  project would                                                                    
operate  through   model  and   engineering  work   and  the                                                                    
financing options. She  said that the models  that were used                                                                    
to evaluate different scenarios were complicated.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy explained that  he was trying to understand                                                                    
the  financing  options  for  the  $7  billion  project.  He                                                                    
asserted  that the  public equated  the  project with  cheap                                                                    
electricity,  which  might not  be  the  case under  certain                                                                    
financing options.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:30:31 AM                                                                                                                    
Co-Chair MacKinnon clarified that  the price for the project                                                                    
was $5.6 billion and not $7 billion.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad offered  to  have  the project's  financial                                                                    
advisor walk through the financing  options at a later date.                                                                    
She  added  that the  bond  financing  for the  Bradly  Lake                                                                    
Hydroelectric Plant  model involved a power  sales agreement                                                                    
with  the   utilities  that   purchased  the   power,  those                                                                    
utilities were  committed to paying the  debt service, which                                                                    
was incorporated into rates for  the customer. She said that                                                                    
a more detailed description of  the various options could be                                                                    
provided at a later date.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:31:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad presented slide 8, "Economic Impact":                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     • Majority Alaska Hire                                                                                                   
          - 65% Alaskans employed                                                                                               
          - Capitalizing on Pacific Northwest hydroelectric                                                                     
         experience while maintaining Alaska Hire                                                                               
    • In 2014, nearly $7 million earned in Alaska wages                                                                       
     • In 2013, $6 million spent in goods and services in                                                                     
     the Mat-Su Valley                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:33:08 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  presented Slide 9, "Environmental  Study Process,"                                                                    
and noted that there were four phases to the process:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
        · Study Plan Development                                                                                                
          • Study Implementation                                                                                                
          Phase                                                                                                                 
          • Impact Assessment                                                                                                   
          • Development of                                                                                                      
          Protection, Mitigation and                                                                                            
          Enhancement Measures                                                                                                  
          (PMEs)                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  relayed that  although AEA  had not  completed the                                                                    
last two  bullet points on the  slide, he was going  to draw                                                                    
conclusions from  the data that  had already  been collected                                                                    
in order  to give the committee  a taste of what  would come                                                                    
in the future.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:34:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok moved to Slide 10, "2014: Safe and Effective Field                                                                     
Work":                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     • More than 200 in the field, with one recordable                                                                          
     incidents                                                                                                                  
     • Completed data collection for 13 FERC-approved                                                                           
     studies                                                                                                                    
          - Water Quality, Bioaccumulation of Mercury                                                                           
          - Ice Processes, Glacier and Runoff Changes                                                                           
          -     Salmon    Escapement,     Aquatic    Habitat                                                                    
          Characterization, Fish Passage Barriers                                                                               
          - Large  Carnivores, Terrestrial  Furbearers, Bat,                                                                    
          Wood Frog                                                                                                             
          - Subsistence                                                                                                         
          - Probable Maximum Flood                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:34:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok  moved to  Slide  11,  "Understanding the  Susitna                                                                    
Basin,"  explaining that  the work  that had  been done,  to                                                                    
date, had  identified environmental issues and  expanded the                                                                    
state of  knowledge that  would allow the  agencies to  do a                                                                    
better job  managing resources, with particular  emphasis on                                                                    
fish and wildlife data:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     • Advanced the state of science for agencies to better                                                                     
     manage resources                                                                                                           
          - Wildlife, fish,  recreation, subsistence surveys                                                                    
          etc.                                                                                                                  
          -  Documented  distribution of  invasive  Northern                                                                    
          Pike in Lower Susitna River                                                                                           
          - Contributed >4,500 tissue  samples to ADF&G Gene                                                                    
          Conservation Lab                                                                                                      
          - Expanded  distribution data for species  such as                                                                    
          Chinook Salmon, Lake and Rainbow Trout                                                                                
          - Maximized value of Mat-Su fisheries research                                                                        
     • Expanded public knowledge of Susitna Basin                                                                               
          -  Environmental, fish  and game,  aerial imagery,                                                                    
          hydrology data, etc.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:36:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok moved to Slide 12, "Cultural Resources":                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     • Developing a better understanding of historical and                                                                      
     current human use of the Susitna region                                                                                    
          - Subsistence, cultural resources, archeology,                                                                        
         ethnogeography, recreation, health, etc.                                                                               
     • Ahtna Ethnogeography Study                                                                                               
          - Interviewed Ahtna elders to discuss traditional                                                                     
          uses                                                                                                                  
          - Documented Ahtna place-names, Athabascan groups                                                                     
          and territorial boundaries, traditional routes,                                                                       
          trails, artifacts.                                                                                                    
     • A similar effort for Dena'ina people part of FERC                                                                        
     approved study plan, not completed                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:36:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy  requested the  total amount that  had been                                                                    
spent on fish  studies, and the amount  dedicated to further                                                                    
studies.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  responded that approximately $50  million had been                                                                    
spent on fish studies.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy asked what was included in the studies.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  replied that the  studies included  hydrology; out                                                                    
of  the total  licensing cost  more  than half  of the  cost                                                                    
would  go   toward  water   quality,  hydrology,   ice,  and                                                                    
fisheries studies. These studies  were largest driver of the                                                                    
cost of the project, with  cultural studies coming in second                                                                    
place.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy asked  how much  money would  be spent  on                                                                    
fish studies in the future.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok agreed to provide the information at a later date.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:38:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  asked  whether Mr.  Dyok  was  actively                                                                    
sharing  the information  with the  Department  of Fish  and                                                                    
Game (DF&G).                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok responded in the  affirmative. He and added AEA was                                                                    
also working with federal agencies.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:38:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok   presented  Slide   13,  "Wildlife   Studies  and                                                                    
Coordination":                                                                                                                  
     Increased ADF&G's Understanding for                                                                                      
     Game Management Unit 13E                                                                                                 
          -  Moose  habitat  use  and  movement;  population                                                                    
          estimates and  bull and calf  ratios; productivity                                                                    
          and survival                                                                                                          
          - Caribou seasonal  use and movement; interactions                                                                    
          between neighboring herds and population dynamics                                                                     
          - Dall's Sheep surveys                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:39:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok  presented   Slide  14,  "Understanding  Potential                                                                    
Impacts,"  which  depicted  a  map  of  the  Susitna  River,                                                                    
divided  into three  sections, indicating  the proposed  dam                                                                    
site. He relayed  that studies in the 1980's  had revealed a                                                                    
limited number of Chinook salmon  going upstream of the dam,                                                                    
but that  the real  impacts of  the dam  were in  the middle                                                                    
river, thinning out further downstream.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:40:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok  moved  to  Slide   15,  "Confirming  Results  and                                                                    
Defining Areas of Impacts":                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     • Observations similar to 1980s                                                                                            
          - Fish distribution                                                                                                   
          - Chinook  salmon only documented  anadromous fish                                                                    
          above Devils Canyon                                                                                                   
          -   Water  chemistry   and  seasonal   changes  in                                                                    
          chemistry                                                                                                             
          - Geomorphically stable river system                                                                                  
          -  Magnitude   of  bird  migration   and  breeding                                                                    
          distribution                                                                                                          
     • Defining potential areas of impacts                                                                                      
          -  Insignificant   water  quality   or  geomorphic                                                                    
          impacts below Yentna  River Confluence (No further                                                                    
          modeling proposed in this reach)                                                                                      
          - Minor  impacts on main channel  geomorphology in                                                                    
          Middle   River  (Dam   site   to  Chulitna   River                                                                    
          confluence)                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:42:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Bishop  asked   whether  recent   water  chemistry                                                                    
findings, and the  findings from 1980, could  be provided to                                                                    
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok agreed to provide the information.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:42:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Dyok  moved   to  Slide   16,  "Average   Annual  Flow                                                                    
Contributions,"  which  illustrated   how  conditions  would                                                                    
attenuate downstream of the dam.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:44:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  turned to Slide  17, "Average Annual  Bed Material                                                                    
Load Contributions," and explained  that gravel was good for                                                                    
fish,  sand  was  not.  He continued  to  explain  that  the                                                                    
Susitna River,  upstream of  Watana Dam,  99 percent  of the                                                                    
bed material  was sand,  and 1 percent  was gravel.  He said                                                                    
that the dam would stop  the material from going downstream;                                                                    
studies  had   mirrored  those  done  in   the  1980's,  the                                                                    
reservoir had 100's to 1000's  of years if capacity to store                                                                    
the  sediment.  He shared  that  the  Chulitna River  was  a                                                                    
driver of the gravel in  the system, and most sediment would                                                                    
be coming in downstream from the Yentna River.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:45:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  showed Slide  18, "Salmon  Spawning Distribution,"                                                                    
which  offered two  pie charts  detailing  where the  salmon                                                                    
were distributed  in the river  system; 95 to 99  percent of                                                                    
the fish spawned in the lower river.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:46:19 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok   showed  Slide   19,  "Chinook   Salmon  Spawning                                                                    
Distribution by Basin," and explained  that 97 to 99 percent                                                                    
of the salmon spawned in tributaries.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:47:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok  continued  to Slide  20,  "Coho  Salmon  Spawning                                                                    
Distribution by Basin." He said  that no Coho salmon spawned                                                                    
in the Susitna River above Devils Canyon.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
9:47:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  queried whether the  AEA had a  plan to                                                                    
deal with  the 5 percent of  fish that were spawning  in the                                                                    
middle Susitna River, below Devils Canyon.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok  clarified  that  his  intent  had  been  to  give                                                                    
perspective on the  salmon in the middle  river. He asserted                                                                    
that most of  the fish studies pertained to the  fish in the                                                                    
middle river. He said that if  the impacts of the dam on the                                                                    
middle  river  were  understood and  addressed  effectively,                                                                    
there would  be lesser effect downstream  between the Yentna                                                                    
and Talkeetna Rivers.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:49:13 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dunleavy asked what the  plan was for the fish above                                                                    
the dam.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  moved to Slide  21, "Chinook by the  Numbers," and                                                                    
explained that there was an  area upstream of Devil's Canyon                                                                    
that was  utilized by  most of  the fish  that made  it that                                                                    
far. He said  that DF&G had tagged fish in  the lower river,                                                                    
and a contractor  had tagged fish upstream  of the Talkeetna                                                                    
River. The  slide relayed that  only one salmon  species had                                                                    
been documented  within 30  miles of  the project  site, the                                                                    
numbers were as follows:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     2012 - 352 Chinook salmon tagged; 23 made it to                                                                            
     Devil's Canyon; 10 above Devil's Canyon; 4 above                                                                           
     project site                                                                                                               
     2013 - 603 Chinook salmon tagged; 18 made it to                                                                            
     Devils' Canyon; above Devil's Canyon; above project                                                                        
     site                                                                                                                       
     2014 - 622 Chinook salmon tagged; 11 made it to                                                                            
     Devil's Canyon; above Devil's Canyon; above project                                                                        
     site                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  felt that the  AEA had  a good perspective  of the                                                                    
fish activity upstream.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:53:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad  added that  the  licensing  effort was  an                                                                    
attempt  to build  the project.  She said  that in  order to                                                                    
know how the project would  operate, the rivers needed to be                                                                    
thoroughly examined and evaluated.  She referred to Slide 9,                                                                    
bullet point  4: the  development of  protection, mitigation                                                                    
and  enhancement measures  (PMEs), which  were an  important                                                                    
part  of the  FERC licensing  development. She  related that                                                                    
the benefits of  the project, with respect  to the potential                                                                    
cost of power,  was balanced on the  environmental impact by                                                                    
the development of  the PME measures. She  asserted that the                                                                    
river system  needed to be  evaluated and  understood before                                                                    
work could begin on the PMEs.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:54:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche   asked  whether  systems   within  the                                                                    
drainage   could   be   returned   to   higher   levels   of                                                                    
productivity. He  asserted that  the job of  the AEA  was to                                                                    
convince  the public  that  the effects  of  the project  on                                                                    
water  quality and  fish populations  would  be minimal.  He                                                                    
said that  in reality there would  be environmental impacts.                                                                    
He stated  that those  proposing and constructing  a project                                                                    
could  provide mitigation  that would  deliver a  far higher                                                                    
return  than  the  affected  water   systems.  He  asked  if                                                                    
neighboring drainages  had been  examined for  mitigation of                                                                    
adverse effects of the dam.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  responded that many  ideas had been  discussed. He                                                                    
thought  that as  a mitigation  effort AEA  could work  with                                                                    
DF&G  to  develop  a more  robust  eradication  program  for                                                                    
northern pike.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche queried  whether  AEA  had worked  with                                                                    
fish  habitat experts  on the  possible  issues the  project                                                                    
could generate.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  responded that  AEA had  worked with  some groups,                                                                    
but that  closer work would be  done on PMEs as  the process                                                                    
developed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:57:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked whether a  sketch of power line routes                                                                    
and land  status options for  the project could  be provided                                                                    
to the committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok  responded  that two  preferred  routes  had  been                                                                    
identified. He  referred to the  map on Slide 14.  He shared                                                                    
that the Gold Creek option, south  of the Susitna River - or                                                                    
approaching  from the  Denali Highway,  were  the two  least                                                                    
environmentally damaging options.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:00:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  noted  that  there  were  native  lands  and                                                                    
residents  of  the area  that  were  not enthusiastic  about                                                                    
power lines  traveling across their  land. He  wondered what                                                                    
percentage  of  the over-land  power  line  routes had  been                                                                    
negotiated.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad  stated that  AEA  was  in the  process  of                                                                    
studying what the appropriate corridors  would be. She noted                                                                    
that  they  had a  permit  with  CIRI  and support  to  move                                                                    
forward with the  licensing of the project.  She stated that                                                                    
the CIRI  group had expressed  support for the  road access,                                                                    
which would  follow the transmission lines.  She stated that                                                                    
the  Gold Creek  road access  plan  had been  stated as  the                                                                    
group's preferred  route, and went  through their  land. She                                                                    
attested that she had not  heard of the village corporations                                                                    
taking issue with the access route and power lines.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson clarified  that he  was aware  that residents                                                                    
were generally not opposed to  roads that provided access to                                                                    
their  property; however,  they  did take  issue with  power                                                                    
lines and  the support structures that  accompanied them. He                                                                    
understood that more  than 20 percent of  the three proposed                                                                    
access routes had not been  approved by native corporations,                                                                    
both village and regional.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok explained that an  agreement had not been made, but                                                                    
that CIRI had stated their  preference. He said that AEA had                                                                    
made it clear that the  primary transmission route needed to                                                                    
be  close  to   the  access  route  so  that   it  could  be                                                                    
maintained.  He believed  that further  discussion would  be                                                                    
necessary.  He added  that the  Ninilchik and  Tyonek Native                                                                    
Corporations  had  submitted  letters  to  the  governor  in                                                                    
support of the continuation of the licensing process.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:03:36 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  noted  that   the  two  native  corporations                                                                    
mentioned were  located far from  where the dam  was planned                                                                    
to be built.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad pointed out that  although they were further                                                                    
away than some, they owned the land in the area.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:04:06 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked whether the  access road would be open                                                                    
to the  public, or would  it be exclusively  for maintenance                                                                    
of the power line.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Dyok relayed  that the  decision on  the access  of the                                                                    
road after  construction was still  in question.  He pointed                                                                    
out to  the committee that  the Gold Creek route  would come                                                                    
from  the  railroad and  would  not  link  up to  the  Parks                                                                    
Highway.    He said  that  during  construction, for  safety                                                                    
sake, the road would be open for construction only.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:05:10 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok showed Slide 22, "Engineering Accomplishments":                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     • Board of Consultants Endorsed Roller                                                                                     
     Compacted Concrete and Dam Configuration                                                                                   
     • 2014 drilling confirmed no active faults found at                                                                        
     dam site                                                                                                                   
     • Mean Annual Energy - 2,800 Gigawatt Hours                                                                                
     • Engineering Feasibility Report - January 2015                                                                            
          - Optimized dam height, capacity and power                                                                            
          generation                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:07:08 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad mentioned a missing  slide that had provided                                                                    
information  about  the   corridor  selection  process.  She                                                                    
shared  that in  order to  file the  license application,  a                                                                    
preferred  route  needed  to   be  identified,  as  well  as                                                                    
alternative routes. She relayed  that an additional corridor                                                                    
access study would need to be done in the future.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:08:01 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy asked  how the  project compared  to other                                                                    
dam projects  in the country,  and/or world, with  regard to                                                                    
gigawatt production.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  replied that there  were a  number of dams  in the                                                                    
world  with  higher  numbers.  He  said  that  in  terms  of                                                                    
gigawatt production  the project ranked  in the top  50 dams                                                                    
in the United States.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:09:10 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked whether construction  had started on the                                                                    
dam. He  referred to  an individual  related to  the project                                                                    
who  was  killed several  years  ago  while operating  heavy                                                                    
machinery.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok  clarified that  the man  who had  died had  been a                                                                    
contractor  who had  worked  for a  lodge  which had  housed                                                                    
workers in the  area. He asserted that  construction had not                                                                    
begun.                                                                                                                          
Senator Olson referred to the  1980's, when the price of oil                                                                    
had dropped into the single  digits. He wondered whether the                                                                    
AEA  had a  contingency plan  for financing  construction if                                                                    
the  current  low  price  of   oil,  and  the  lack  of  oil                                                                    
production affected project funding.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad felt  that the  opportunity  to review  the                                                                    
project and examine the project's  financing provided by the                                                                    
administrative order was a contingency plan in itself.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:12:22 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bishop asked  whether the  U.S. Corps  of Engineers                                                                    
had modeled the dam at their headquarters in Vicksburg.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok responded in the negative.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:13:14 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair Micciche  queried the  number of  utility funded,                                                                    
large energy projects in the  Lower 48, where the government                                                                    
had   not   entered   taken   responsibility,   outside   of                                                                    
permitting, and  finance options were strictly  a percentage                                                                    
of rate-base and not funded by the state.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok replied  that most of the projects in  the lower 48                                                                    
were  done by  the U.S.  Corps of  Engineers, the  Bureau of                                                                    
Reclamation,  and  the  Tennessee Valley  Authority  on  the                                                                    
federal  level.  Large  dams on  the  state  level  involved                                                                    
governmental   agencies   which  benefited   from   low-cost                                                                    
financing.  He added  that there  were  some investor  owned                                                                    
utilities  that  were  sizeable,  but the  majority  of  the                                                                    
larger projects  in the Lower  48 were developed  by federal                                                                    
or  state-backed entities.  He  said  that private  entities                                                                    
investing  could lead  to  bonding  restrictions and  higher                                                                    
interest rates for those investors.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:16:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Fisher-Goad added  that when  AEA was  originally given                                                                    
the authority  to move forward  with the project,  there was                                                                    
an  assumption that  the state  would  invest. She  asserted                                                                    
that it  was anticipated that  the state would be  paid back                                                                    
for  its  investment  in  the   project.  She  reminded  the                                                                    
committee that  the legacy  of the  project would  be clean,                                                                    
reliable  energy for  the  next 100  years.  She added  that                                                                    
having  a  low-cost  and  consistent   power  source  at  an                                                                    
inflation proof  cost would  be economically  beneficial for                                                                    
the state.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:19:01 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy  asked  how many  households  the  project                                                                    
would provide power to.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Fisher-Goad responded that the  project was projected to                                                                    
provide over  50 percent of  the power needed in  the entire                                                                    
Railbelt area, and not just households.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:20:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  MacKinnon  explained  that   the  purpose  of  the                                                                    
presentation was  to consider the  viability of  the project                                                                    
in the  current fiscal  climate. She noted  that one  of the                                                                    
aspects of the  project was for the state to  meet the goals                                                                    
inside of  Alaska's energy policy  of 50  percent renewables                                                                    
by 2025.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:21:43 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dunleavy reiterated  the  question  about what  the                                                                    
clawback  of the  $6 million,  and  taking a  year off  from                                                                    
funding, would mean for the project.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon requested the response in writing.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:22:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Vice-Chair  Micciche noted  that  he was  interested in  the                                                                    
exploring  the  private  funding  options  for  the  project                                                                    
moving forward.  He requested that  the AEA  provide finance                                                                    
models that reflected private/public partnerships.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon stated that AEA  would be back before the                                                                    
committee in the future to discuss individual projects.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:24:15 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked whether the numbers for the cost of                                                                       
the dam construction included the cost of the right-of-                                                                         
ways.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Dyok replied in the affirmative.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:25:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair MacKinnon discussed housekeeping.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
10:25:41 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 10:25 a.m.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
021915 SFC Susitna-Watana Hydro.pdf SFIN 2/19/2015 9:00:00 AM
Administrative Order 271